Why is it said that knives beat firearms at a distance under 21 feet?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “21 foot rule knife vs gun“
About Isabella
Written by: Isabella
Published on:
Why is it said that knives beat firearms at a distance under 21 feet?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “21 foot rule knife vs gun“
About Isabella
This is a reference to the Tueller Drill. Basically, if you take your average police officer with a weapon holstered and an average guy with a knife in hand, at a distance of 21 feet or less the police officer cannot reliably draw his gun and end the threat before getting stabbed.
It doesn’t mean the attacker won’t get shot, but if you fire when the attacker is 2 feet away, you may very well be getting stabbed anyway. This isn’t the movies where a single shot always drops your attackers (except for main characters).
Some people try to apply this to every situation. Again, in this drill the weapon is holstered. If you have gun drawn and aimed, I’m not saying the guy isn’t a threat, but you should be able to shoot him before he reaches you.
On the other hand, in this drill both people are aware of the drill and what is going on. Now imagine you’re just walking down the street and you are attacked out of nowhere. Your reflexes will probably be worse than during this drill.
The Tueller Drill is sometimes cited to help justify police shootings. It also gives officers some sort of guideline as to when they need to make the decision to shoot.
Tueller Drill
This drill in no way, shape, or form means that a knife is more dangerous than a gun or that a knife beats a gun within 21 feet. It means that a guy with a drawn weapon is very dangerous to a guy without a drawn weapon. That’s it.
imarku Japanese Chef Knife – Pro Kitchen Knife 8 Inch Chef’s Knives
Because (as others have noted) a knife is a far more dangerous weapon in even the hands of an untrained amateur within that distance than a firearm is. At best, a trained shooter could draw his/her weapon and perhaps get off a single shot before the knife wielder was on them and was either slashing or stabbing them. More likely than not, you wouldn’t get off a round and you’d be injured or killed by your attacker.
Here are several problems though with the “Tueller drill” that can compensate for the distance and danger issues:
1. If the rule is being applied to police officers, then most are wearing Kevlar vests . – While this doesn’t offer the same level of protection that a stab or cut resistant vest might (NOTE: There are Kevlar vests which also offer stab and laceration resistance) it will still lessen the severity of most wounds provided that the assailant’s knife isn’t double-edged or too thin to be caught in the vest’s weave.
2. Most police encounters occur with either the officer’s hand on the weapon or their sidearm out already – Even if the officer can’t draw quickly, they can move laterally and thus force an attacker change speed or direction. This can buy enough time for the officer to completely unholster his/her weapon and begin to fire on the suspect.
3. Most knife wielders are not trained – While a knife is always a dangerous weapon, most people who carry them rarely are skilled in their use. Simply pulling a knife and rushing forward risks being immediately shot, sidestepped or subdued using empty hand techniques. For someone who has made the decision to attack, these variables may not have been considered and they are opening themselves up for injury or death.
So while 21 feet is the minimum distance that someone should be allowed to approach with a knife, it still doesn’t mean that you couldn’t defend yourself and perhaps even inflict some fatal damage to your attacker inside of that range.
Authentic XYJ Since 1986,Outstanding Ancient Forging,6.7 Inch Full Tang
It’s just an oft-repeated over-simplification of firearms training. It takes time to draw a gun from a holster and fire it. If, on a firing range, you tell an average cop to draw and fire when he hears a signal, it will take around 1.5 – 3 seconds for that cop to react to hearing the signal, then physically draw the gun, aim, and fire. The general public is generally slower, and people who go to shooting competitions every weekend are generally faster (a LOT faster and more accurate too). Take that “average cop” time as a guideline.
So, if a person has a knife in his hand, and he is 21 feet away, how much time will it take him to lunge that 21 feet and stick the knife in his target? Probably less than 1.5 seconds. The person facing him, gun in holster, almost certainly will not be able to react, draw, and fire quickly enough to stop him with a bullet. Most people wouldn’t even get the gun out of the holster in time, especially a retention holster like most cops carry.
So, it’s not that the knife beats the gun. It’s that if the knife is already in the aggressor’s hand, and your gun isn’t already in your hand, you’re going to lose if you wait for the aggressor to charge. This doesn’t mean the aggressor needs to be shot right away. It does mean that in order to preserve the option of using the gun in self defense, the gun needs to come out of the holster before the knife-wielding aggressor charges.
Wanbasion Black Stainless Steel Knife Set, Sharp Kitchen Knife
This has been drilled into the heads of police cadets for many years now. I would like to point out a few things.
The essential purpose of all this was not to explore the “knife vs. gun” question but rather to enforce upon officers the necessity of vigilance and observation, and of the protective pat-down of a potential suspect.
I’ve seen the little video with Dan Inosanto, a world-famous martial artist trained in a wide variety of knife systems, many times.
There are very few people in the world with the skills of Mr. Inosanto and fewer still of them that are going to randomly attack a police officer.
In my career, I’m not familiar with a single case of a skillful, determined knife attack on a police officer. Every one I’m familiar with has been a suicide-by-cop scenario where the fellow proudly displays his knife and slowly advances on the officer(s) to get shot.
Now….Let’s talk about the kinds of wounds inflicted by the knife. Deep stabs are often fatal….True. At some point. Eventually, the victim “bleeds out”. They are very seldom if ever instantly fatal.
Whereas, solid hits from a powerful handgun are very often instantly disabling and if a CNS hit (Central Nervous System) are one-shot-drops.
Since a reasonably-skilled shooter can put a whole lot of bullet holes in a person in a very short time…. It’s not like the knife-attacker is likely to “win” these encounters.
The fellow with the gun, if stabbed, might die at some point subsequently, but the attacker will almost surely absorb a lot of lead.
It’s not the movies. You don’t stick a knife in someone and they fall down dead. In fact, stabbing victims often report that they did not know they had been stabbed. They thought they had been punched. It was not until they noticed the blood that they realized it was a serious wound.
Finally, there are shooters and there are shooters. I would have liked to see this video with the estimable Mr. Inosanto re-done with someone like the late Bill Jordan, who could draw and fire a standard duty firearm, and hit the K-zone of a standard silhouette at 7 yards…. in .27 seconds. Including reaction time.
If you watched the Mythbusters episode that explored this question, Adam was able to shoot Jaime on about equal term….With the added handicap that he had to “rack” the action on his “weapon”.
This would not be the case in a combat situation.
Amazon Basics 14-Piece Kitchen Knife Block Set, High-Carbon
Because of a basic misunderstanding about the issues involved.
Jon Mixon does a great job explaining the technical rationale behind this, along with some of the inherent fallacies. The key issue is: How quickly can you deploy and use a weapon to save your life? It doesn’t matter what you are being threatened with: Knife, machete, baseball bat, halberd, etc. Can you draw your weapon and incapacitate the attacker before he reaches you?
Most of it comes from the writings of Dennis Tueller, and you can read his words here…
The Police Policy Studies Council [ http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm ]
I’ve demonstrated the Tueller Drill in numerous classes to make a point about reaction time. The point is not that seconds counts, but that tenths of seconds count. For a person with reasonable training, it will take you longer to make the decision to draw, than it will to actually draw and fire. Tueller’s experience was that it took him about 1.5 seconds to draw and fire, and that an average person could cross about 21 feet in that amount of time.
But Tueller never said there was a 21-foot rule (and has, in fact, derided the concept). If you, as a police officer, approach someone with a weapon out, you should draw your own weapon and cover the suspect immediately. Which turns the “21-foot rule” on its ear.
It’s all about response time to an immediate threat. At close range, action almost always beats reaction, so you have to begin defensive maneuvers at the perception of a threat.
Others have expanded on his ideas to conceptualize a sort of “zone of safety” inside of which an armed felon is an immediate thre…
Spring Assisted Knife – Pocket Folding Knife – Military Style
I run a version of the Tueller drill when teaching law enforcement. I will place a shooter on the 7 yard line, with weapon in the holster, round in the chamber & facing downrange. I will place another student on approximately a 8 yard line, 21 feet to the shooters right. This student simulates a knife welding attacker.
On the commend “GUN” the “knife welding attacker” will run as hard as he can at the shooter, with the objective of touching the shooter. At the commend of “GUN” the shooter will draw and hit a man-size target and engage it as many times until the “attacker” touches the shooters side.
In roughly 8 out of 10 times the attacker will touch the shooter prior to the shooter getting a round off, simulating a knife strike. In the other 2 out of 10, the shooter will get one, sometimes two rounds off. Not always hitting the target.
Lets say the shooter puts two rounds into the torso of the attacker. You have to remember “bullets fail!” Look at all the reports of individuals taking multiple rounds in a variety of calibers from 44 magnum, shotgun rounds and rifle bullets and staying in the fight. The attacker has momentum on his side and possibly surprise as well. Not mention it might be their total life goal at that moment to stick 4 inches of steel in you and they are prepared to sacrifice their life to kill you. They may die, but it might take awhile, in the meantime they are cutting you in two.
Knife attacks are no joke, I don’t know about ” blades beating firearms at 21 feet or less. But bad guys with knives scare the crap out of me and I’m fairly dangerous man when I’m scared. LOL!
Chicago Cutlery Belden 15 Piece Premium Kitchen Knife
the real weapon is the mind,the gun and knife are just tools,the gun has much more powerful damage and effectiveness by ammo than human energy through the knife. So the gun is far more powerful weapon,however if you don’t know how to use gun or knife,you can’t defeat a knife.The point of this thing is wrong because the gun is in fact easy to use,shoot fast by pulling the trigger and absolutely accuracy in near range,not like a knife that requires more skill in every range.You also can use shot gun ammunition if you don’t trust your shooting skill.
imagine that you have a knife and enemy also has a knife,you’ll likely need high martial skill and health to kill him,but if you have a pistol and enemy just has a knife,you can easily warn them and shot them in 1m without any professional shooting training.This quote that “knife can beat gun” is a fallacy and a trap believe that lie you by delusions.
So the fact is,gun is more dangerous weapon lol
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
It’s a misconception based on the “Tueller drill”, based on the estimation that within 21 feet a knife-armed attacker can close the range to man armed with a holstered gun before he can effectively shoot the attacker.
It doesn’t mean that the knife-wielding attacker will win, but that he will be able to close the range and wound the defender. Firearms don’t magically stop working point blank, quite likely that both would be mortally wounded.
If we take the word “beat” literally, it is flat out wrong regardless.
What are the odds of someone with a holstered knife approached by someone with a gun drawn and pointed at them at 21 feet? Really not good, easily worse then the first case (gun holstered, knife out) because there’s a chance you won’t be making those 21 feet at all.
A blanket statement that “knives beat firearms at distance under 21 feet” implies that even in this case a knife is superior, or that you’ve decided to redefine what the word “beat” means.
What would be accurate is saying “knife wielding attackers are extremely dangerous to a person armed with a gun at distances under 21 feet” which has too much of a “duh” factor to be notable.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Why is it said that knives beat firearms at a distance under 21 feet?
Surviving Edged Weapons.
Surviving Edged Weapons is a police instruction movie about the dangers of edged weapons encountered in police work. I post the video in its entirety here:
The video contains the Dan Inosanto footage who proved that police officers standing too close without acknowledging the risk of a sudden knife attack would be fatally wounded.
It also shows footage of the Tueller Drill, which asserts that 21 feet is the minimum distance for a police officer to draw his gun and fire twice in an attacker with a knife.
This type of misinformation is easily validated because the video seems factually correct and scientifically supported — and it was created to get police officers to take knife attacks seriously. That’s why the police officer at the end is crying…
12-Piece Color-Coded Kitchen Knife Set, 6 Knives with 6 Blade Guards
This is a biased/misleading question if someone using/coming at you with a knife the reaction time to draw aim firearm is about 2.5seconds meaning standing still you’re going to get bloody from knife
although if both have knife/firearm presented it’s obvious whether it’s a 5shot revolver or 30–40rd AR-15 “pistol” who’s getting bloody
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
It actually is NOT generally, or accurately said, that this is the case… what would be a much more accurate statement, would be to say, is that within a distance of some 20 feet or less, that a person with a drawn blade, may well be able to approach and effectively strike a person carrying a firearm, before the latter can effectively draw, aim, and fire a gun.
I’d first quality any answer by reminding folks that the “21 foot” distance is hardly the automatic qualification in this question. I’ve seen well conducted, documented research find anywhere between 21 feet, to 16 feet, for this ‘Goldilocks zone’.
I believe this very initial discrepancy in the ‘magic distance’ should, by itself, give us a huge part of the answer to this question… The “safe” distance between gun & knife depends tremendously on circumstance, (the skill levels of both parties; the specific types of blades vs firearms involved; etc), such that there really IS no such SPECIFIC distance where as the blade vs firearm becomes an automatic decision for the blade.
Like any true combat situation,there are so many variables, including not only the ones already mentioned, but also simply the difference between the emotions, training, and most importantly,the motivations of the combatants, that you just can’t make any hard and fast rule. For example, the trained Police Officer will have a very different set of training and motivation for drawing and firing upon a perceived attacker, than the average citizen might have.
Similarity, there’s a huge difference between a motivated and/or trained person in using blades, vs someone who’s simply picked up a knife as a weapon of convenience or desperation. For those very reasons, and differences in circumstance, Law Enforcement is trained to regard as a potentially life threatening circumstance ANY blade they see with a close distance…
Law Enforcement has no way to know or access the true motivation, or degree of training, that they’re looking at as an armed person approaches them. They have to go on what they see at that second, and react to the fact that it doesn’t take more the 15 to 20 feet for a determined person to reach them with a blade. For that reason, as appalled as I am when any person is shot by Police, I also totally understand the necessity for such actions… those officers involved simply cannot safely predict the actions, motivations, or abilities of the person attacking them.For that reason alone, Officers sometimes must make to the decision to use deadly force.
You simply can’t know or accurately determine how fast, how well trained, or how motivated, a potential attacker may be, and hence, must react with the appropriate degree of response – one must assume that such an attack is very much potentially lethal, and react as such.
I’m personally more of a blade person than a gun person, (thought I own many of both) and, given a choice,would never take the proverbial “knife to a gun fight…” However, I know that if being attacked by a blade person without a 20 foot or so basis, I’d better be prepared to react very quickly.
Conversely, as a blade carrier, I also know that if needed, I stand a certain chance if close enough. As with almost ANY combat, there are so many difference variables that there really is NOT any true and definitive answer.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
The important takeaway for this is not that there is a magic weapon or a magic zone that always wins. Before this, many people felt that a gun always won against a knife. Sadly, after this, many people felt a knife would always win against a gun.
Neither a gun nor a knife is a perfect weapon for all cases. What you should think of is to not get complacent and to always be prepared for different types of threats and the appropriate ways to reduce the likelihood of being harmed. Preparation and anticipation gives you an advantage over somebody not prepared. Sometimes that is not enough, but you work with what you have.
HENCKELS 8-pc Steak Knife Set
At a distance of 21 feet, most people can charge and be on you faster than you can clear your gun from its holster, take the safety off and fire. Only takes a few seconds – IF you know what you are doing and don’t fumble – but those seconds are critical.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Most people can not react fast enough inside of that distance to draw a firearm and fire accurately to keep from being cut or stabbed.. When I am instructing, I advise that if you are threatened, you should have your weapon out and ready while the threat is no further than 20 feet and definitely no closer than 15 feet.
Mossy Oak Survival Hunting Knife with Sheath, 15-inch Fixed Blade
Here’s a great video demonstrating the effectiveness of a knife against trained officers at close range. My take away from this? Don’t let a known threat get within 21 feet of you.
MOSSY OAK 14-inch Bowie Knife, Full-tang Fixed Blade Wood
Yeah the 21 foot rule IS NOT about a gun drawn and aimed situation. Its about a knife in hand vs a secured and holstered gun. Or even someone without a knife at all. Not a thrown knife issue normally – except if attacker throws 1 of 2 knives as an extra distraction to your draw and aim process.
The point being that a fit attacker can take 3–6 steps fast enough to push your gun to one side before you can draw and fire a properly secured gun — unless you are extremely fast. Under 6 foot and it obviously becomes a gun wrestling contest. Its pretty easy to miss completely the first couple of shots if someone gets a hand on your gun or gun arm. Even the best shooters are unlikely to get into get a double handed grip fast enough. Dodging by side step can even play a factor a very close ranges and a gun still swinging up from the holster.
Truth is that the average officer usually will not hit the center of a fast moving target at 21 foot or under if they weave at all. Lot different than drawing against a fixed unmoving target whose position you have been fixing in your mind for a long time. Even a straight on charge is not a sure thing. And a head shot is really questionable for all but that fastest and calmest one hand draw. So your instantly fatal gunshot is unlikely.
A knife wielder doesn’t necessarily kill you with their first stab unless they are very good. But I guarantee you a stab through the eye or temple is as INSTANT and fatal as a bullet. A modest slash to the side of the neck is usually unconscious in under 3 seconds. But yes the bullet proof vest will stop the average amateur knife user from a first blow instant victory.
Unfortunately a decent/intelligent knife wielder will inflict SOME damage with the first blow and every following blow UNLESS you more of less stop concentrating on gun use. A smart decent knife wielder will even have the option to stab your gun arm if you cover more vital regions.
The 21 foot rule also covers the aspect of Pyrrhic victory. Momentum alone could result in fatal stabbing wound. Lots of knife wounds may not kill instantly but will be fatal even with paramedic with kit in hand. Under the armpit toward heart if rib fails to stop knife (guess what? Normal gunfiring pose exposes armpit). Any stab under armpit is disabling (no revenge gun shot). Any stab to the groin or inner thigh might severe femoral artery in a manner that cannot be stopped (30 seconds to live but maybe revenge gun shots if you have great willpower).
Of course the basic CLASSIC knife wielder attack is the simple bear hug with a stab to the kidneys from behind. Often prevents upper body gunshots to knife wielder for several knife blows. 98% totally disabling with extreme pain. High chance of fatal bleed out within 1–3 minutes that most paramedics cannot help curtail. Disadvantage to knife wielder is that there is a fair chance of gunshots to lower legs or outer thighs.
What if holster is unbuttoned? Well that is 1–3 second advantage or maybe 1–2 steps (3–8 feet) of distance closure by knife wielder. Still a severe test of your fast draw and one handed aim. Plus of course you now expose yourself to “easy” loss of gun to someone approaching unseen from behind or gun side. Always possible if your attention is captured by sudden appearance of threat in front.
CJRB CUTLERY Folding Knife Crag
Because if somebody that is carrying a firearm is not paying attention you can close a 21-foot gap in under 2 seconds causing substantial damage with a knife. The average response when paying attention is about 1 or 2 seconds to pull a firearm out and depress the trigger discharging around. Now if you take somebody that’s going to knife in their hand standing 21 ft in front of me and I see them and they’re not moving well that’s a different story altogether.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Because most with firearms don’t train to fight inside of 21 feet.
With proper training and technique, the gun is at no disadvantage under 21 feet.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
I think you misunderstand this.
A knife doesn’t beat a firearm. The bullet does a lot more damage on impact.
The THEORY is that a man with a knife can close 21 feet and cut you before you can fire your weapon.
Well, this was modified for students. Cut became kill, as it always does. So, they taught that if you faced a man with a knife, at 21 feet or less, shoot him because he can kill you before you react.
Now, maybe back when we had revolvers. We only had six rounds in our weapons so if we missed, we were unarmed while he was still armed. Today, we have 15 round magazines. In the time it takes for him to close 21 feet, he can be hit 15 times. Not six, but twice as many rounds.
And, we didn’t have body armor then. That adds in the favor of the cop.
Now, I agree, you can get cut if they rush you. And, it is possible to get killed. But, most of your vitals are protected by armor today. That’s going to reduce the effectiveness of a knife by padding. Sure, he might get lucky in other areas, but the odds are reduced.
It also ignores other things. Is there a car between you two? A bed? A river? All of these block his direct attack.
But, if he’s good, can reach me, I may be cleared to shoot. But, if I hit him, what happens? He may still cut me, but he may go down on one shot. If not, as most are taught today, he’s hit repeatedly, as in 15 times. You may still get cut, but at least you know he’s dying.
No, the knife won’t beat a firearm. Even in sentry removal, a suppressed weapon trumps a knife. You have to close to use a knife but not a gun.
The only time you might say a knife beats a gun is at close range, under the length of the barrel, where a knife is a cut on contact guided missile. If you miss, you can re-attack. One the bullet is fired, it goes in a straight line outward, effectively useless to the person it misses. The knife doesn’t run out of ammo. You can keep on cutting without worry until you get too tired.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Because people don’t understand the original tests that Dennis Tueller ran. Knives don’t automatically beat firearms at 21 feet or less and that isn’t what Dennis said back then nor any time since. Dennis just showed that at close distances a gun is not automatically a better weapon than a knife. It depends on each individual’s skill level with their weapon.
MOSFiATA 8 Super Sharp Professional Chef’s Knife
Because police are idiots and extremely badly trained by even worse idiots.
Obviously anyone who thinks a knife is remotely as dangerous as a firearm, at any range is an idiot. Knives are easily deflected by jackets, clothing, arms, batons, etc., and the user has to use so much force and muscle that they telegraph what they are going to do over half a second before they even begin to become dangerous.
The reality is that the pull of a trigger is so much easier and faster, and bullets even poorly aimed are so much more deadly, that clearly there is no contest at all.
If you think that knives have more danger because their impact point can be adjusted even at the last instant, then just instead imagine a person lunging with the firearm and making direct contact before pulling the trigger. Obviously that will be far more fatal than any knife could ever be, even it you hit bone.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
I assume you mean how can a knife wielding man overtake a gun toting man with a holstered weapon when closer than 21 feet?
Because you can’t shoot a gun until your brain tells you to. You have to first recognize that you are in danger. Then you have to draw your weapon. Then you have to either fire wildly (unless you can point shoot like The Rifleman), or get the gun up to your eye. Both take time, though shooting accurately takes longer than point shooting.
Consider a 100 yd dash. A good time is 10 seconds. So for 21 feet (7 yds), that is 7/10 of a second. Round up to a second for your allotted reaction time. You have 1 second to not only shoot your weapon, but also have that wound incapacitate the attacker.
Have someone surprise you at some point today. Make sure you can’t predict it. After they surprise you, have them time you from surprise until you can get your phone out of your pocket and open even one app. Try to “draw” your phone as fast as you can. I bet you can’t beat a second…
RoverTac Pocket Knife Multitool Folding Knife Tactical Survival Camping Knife
You don’the want to be the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight. Didn’t you ever see what Indiana Jones did to the swordsman?
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Many have mentioned the exact study that resulted in the rule of 21 feet.
My own experience with knives comes from use. I taught fencing lessons at Renaissance Faires for many years. I carried a sword (costume piece) and a very sharp knife to cut leather, rope, tarps and food on a regular basis. Everyone at the booth carried a knife. We also had black powder long rifles in the booth which were each made by their respective owners on display… and yes, we shot them daily.
A customer asked “what would happen if he ran over there and grabbed one of those guns?”, questioning how safe guns were when they weren’t locked up. In a single motion, without hesitation, I threw my knife from behind my back into the center of a hay bale about 10 feet away in the direction of the guns… and stated “you would never make it”. The look on his face was priceless as he realized all the knives on all the people around him.
A lot of distance can be covered by foot or hand in a few seconds. While a bullet is damaging, a knife should not be underestimated in the hands of someone familiar with it. Your reaction time to me throwing a knife may not be fast enough under 21 feet… which makes it just as dangerous and “quick” as a bullet… Beyond 21 feet, your probably just going to side step it.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
The basic information i’ve received over the years is that 21 feet is the distance that an average individual armed with a nife could contact an officer physically before a weapon could be drawn and fired at an attacking individual. The closer he is than 21 feet drastically places an officer at risk. I recall the distance being less than 21 in training a while ago. Perhaps someone could update.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Because:
—Knives don’t jam, misfire, or run out of ammunition. Firearms do—especially semiautomatic pistols, shotguns and rifles. And if your firearm fails to go “bang” and deliver a projectile to the target, for any reason, you’re then stuck with a.) trying to clear a jam (or otherwise cope with the firarm’s failure to fire) and b.) simultaneously deal with a now-closing attacker. (Knives—-especially cheap knives—DO break or bend, or fail to unfold, but that’s another issue.)
—Knives are easier to keep hidden. A box-cutter, utility knife, even a pocket knife with a blade less than four inches (depending on your local laws) can, in most circumstances, be legally carried on the person in a hip-pocket, all safe and sound—until it is drawn and used as a weapon in a matter of a few seconds. By contrast, only the smallest handguns, like the North American Arms five-shot .22 Magnum revolvers, can be as easily carried in a pocket—and, if you’re ever stopped by the police, there’s no way in Hell they’ll let even the smallest pistol pass as a “tool.”
—Knives are often faster to use. Firearms first have to be loaded; then, with many types, a separate action or actions may be needed to move a cartridge from the magazine to the firing-chamber and cock the hammer or firing pin. This takes discrete time—and live tests have shown that a man with a knife can cross 21 feet (the width of a common street) in less time than the average armed man (even a police officer) can spot the danger, recognize it, react, draw his own gun, and “cover” the suspect or shoot him (depending on the attacker’s speed).
The “caveat” to all this, of course, is sufficient training in a self-defense system that teaches you appropriate techniques at ALL ranges—from grappling and arm-locks to punches to kicks to knives to sticks to staffs to pistols to rifles—as well as how to move from range to range, be aware of what range you’re in, who else is there, and whether they’re a possible threat or not. The best systems will teach you that Life is a Dance, that even your would-be attackers are Partners in your Co-creation, and that, once you stop worrying about it and start having a good time with it, being a Warrior can be quite a profound, peaceful experience. The Samurai found it so; so did the Shao Lin; so, too, the akharas of India were creators of both mystics and warriors.
Combine them both—and have fun.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Because when most people see someone with a knife 20 feet away, 10 feet away, or even 6 feet away, they don’t really think they are in mortal danger. They think that they’ll have plenty of time to react if the knife wielder charges them. Whereas if you replace the knife with a gun, people *know* their lives are in danger.
But a person 20 feet away with a knife can get at you in under 2 seconds, before you have enough time to fully realize what is going on. 10 feet away and you have well under a second to react.
It is the false sense of security that makes the situation more dangerous. People let their guard down a bit (they are in “condition orange” when they really should be in “condition red”) and think they are relatively safe.
Pocket Knife Spring Assisted Folding Knives
Just a clarification of your quote – it is knife v HOLSTERED gun and as other answers have pointed out no one “wins” in 21 feet a determined knife wielder will do some damage that could end up being fatal – and then get shot – no winner
Gerber Gear 22-48485 Paraframe Mini Pocket Knife, 2.2 Inch Fine Edge Blade
It’s based on the Tueller Drill in Militaries and Police simulations. The point of this is to see if an officer with a holstered weapon can draw and shoot his gun by the time the knife attacker had the ability to attack him with a knife. The vast majority of the time the person will be injured within 21 feet or less. If you modify this with a person who knows what they’re doing with knives and they can throw them and they have three knives you can push the distance to 25 feet and it gets bad.
From personal experience I’ve watched this drill. We decided to do it with our Filipino martial arts group as some people worked law enforcement for things like the sheriffs department and there was I believe one former military guy. The worst time for the guy with the gun was when they were still reaching for it and had their hand jammed down and a knife against their throat. Needless to say people are right to be cautious near knives.
Victorinox Fibrox Pro Knife, 8-Inch Chef’s FFP, 8 Inch, Black
The short answer is if you stop a guy and he has a knife, if he is within 21 feet, he could cut you, before you could pull out your gun and shoot him. Now 21 feet is not the same for everyone, some people can pull out there gun faster and some people could get within 21 feet faster but it is a way to show you how close you should be to someone with a knife,
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Plenty of good answers there – seems like the saying refers to a police drill. However, in case the hypothetical combatants were aware of the threat the pose to each other, the person with the gun would have the weapon ready before the assault ever came. Suppose it was not a 9 mm pistol but an AK-wielding dude vs. any blade guy in an open space and at 20 feet? Unless the weapon jams or misfires, the AK dude would almost certainly win. He’d get the full clip off on auto – assuming the knife dude would have to accelerate, clear the distance, and stab.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
As mentioned already, this idea was institutionalized in the Tueller drill, which is common in police and military training. The takeaway is NOT that you should grab a knife and charge a gunman and feel good about it if you’re at 20 feet. It was written from a police/military perspective, with the understanding that the important thing was shooting the other guy into submission and not getting stabbed… Not that you somehow score a point first by getting to yell bang faster. As with many classroom lessons, it’s usefulness is in the ability to teach other concepts, such as:
Don’t just stand there and try to shoot. Move. Angle. Deflect with your off-hand. Find an obstacle you can place between the two of you. Even if you get a shot off, even a potentially fatal one, that’s often not going to instantly drop an attacker. It’s a good way to transition from handgun marksmanship to a more handgun combatives mindset, having someone charge you with a rubber knife while you try to clear your level III retention holster.
Thinking cynically, there’s also a vested interest for police in maintaining the authority of this ‘rule’; if you shoot someone who has a knife and was fifteen feet away from you, you can bet someone in the court would be asking you if you were really in danger of your life… If it was really a justified shooting. The Tueller rule helps get cops clear of charges, and that alone probably guarantees it will continue to be affirmed.
Are there other factors? Of course. Are there elements of pure chance and chaos that manifest in an armed, close-quarters fight? Heck yeah. Shit happens, and in a fight it happens fast and with extreme consequences. But as a generalization, this ‘rule’ has its utility.
Smith & Wesson Extreme Ops SWA24S 7.1in S.S. Folding Knife with 3.1in
Knives, Clubs, and Fists can all beat a gun within 21′. Adrenaline is a powerful thing and anyone charging is likely to have it coursing through their veins. This puts the victim at a severe disadvantage because a defensive draw and fire will likely only result in 1 shot getting off before the attacker is on them. Unless that shot lands in the “T Box”, or the spine, then that person can still make it to the victim.
There is one video in particular, where an Officer sadly lost his life, because he allowed himself to get flanked. One guy tackled him and the other guy was on him just as quickly. It sadly ended with a 3rd guy coming out of the vehicle and joining them, the officers gun was taken and then they shot him in the neck.
One cop told me that he was a marine and that he was taught “Have a plan for everybody you meet”, which kind of offended me a little as I thought “But I’m a good guy.. there’s no reason to have a plan for me!”… obviously, I didn’t say this out loud and I’m glad I didn’t as I my next thought was “But he doesn’t know that”. We talked for quite awhile and joked, but his posture never changed; A defensive stance that was never head on. It made sense because this stance gave him the ability to react more efficiently then facing me straight on. I’ve noted a number of cops do this when talking with people. Unfortunately, I’ve also noted the straight on discussions with arms crossed. That’s more of a tangent though.
I do believe that your best defense within 21′ is going to be hand-to-hand and your ability to offset your attacker to a point that allows you to draw and deal with the situation.
ALBATROSS EDC Cool Sharp Tactical Folding Pocket Knife
It’s repeated ad nauseum by cowardly American police to justify executing people on the street.
Oddly enough, people with edged weapons don’t seem to slaughter police in the UK, Denmark, Getmany…, or any other civilized nation.
Only in America do we find police so terrified of everything and everyone that they go to the gun as a first response rather than a last.
Not because their job is dangerous, but because it might be.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Human reflex! for an UNTRAINED shooter and most even with training! reflex to see attack, think, decide to draw or even pull trigger could be ½ sec or more.
sprinter can run 100 years in 10 sec = 10 yards or 30 ft /sec
so 15 0r 20 feet distance and the blade will cut, Even if knife wilder is shot!
Surprising but true. tested on “myth busters”
taught that when getting training to get “permit”
MOST PEOPLE ITH A GUN ARE VERY RELUCTANT TO SHOOT!
killing takes training!
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Because in 83 Dennis Teuller wrote an article for SWAT magazine, he didn’t publish a study or parse hundreds of police injury reports.
In “How Close is Too Close” He opined that 21 feet was too close to someone when your side arm is holstered and that person has an edged weapon; consequently he recommended that one put an obstacle such as furniture or an auto between one’s self and an attacker. He didn’t advocate shooting anyone, but somehow 21′ has become the point at which police believe they are entitled to kill citizens…
The Police Policy Studies Council
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Most people with knives aren’t going to approach at 21 feet, stop, and annouce, “let’s have a Duel, choose your weapon”.
It’ll probably be at “Bad Breath Distance” and, a nice surprise to you, as in, “hey there, give me your wallet.” Or, you discover said individual “has a knife” because it started getting stuck into you repeatedly. Try and draw a gun while being stabbed or sliced.
If you wish, I can direct you to several videos where knife beats gun.
One starts about 20 feet and “guy with knife” is facing multiple officers…who see his knife.
You can’t “unsee” them, but you can “unlearn” your view of “gun beats knife”.
I have also seen a few “knife versus person in less than Condition White” and they don’t end up very well.
Don’t bring a gun to a knife fight.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
Anecdote time:
Last week, a guy I went to high school with who is a local cop was called into a disturbance at a coffee place. While I can’t get into specific details, what happened was the guy who was causing the disturbance was able to stab the officer in the neck; the officer was able to get off three shots (two hits), but still was stabbed in the neck. Both men will survive their injuries (and have in fact been released from hospital care), but that is still perfect example of what someone with a knife can do even when up against someone with a gun.
Tac-Force- Spring Assisted Folding Pocket Knife
According to the Krav Maga (Israeli Self Defense) class I’ve been taking, it has to do withe the amount of time it would take a firearm holder to unholster his/her gun, reasonably aim, fire and hit an attacker already holding a knife who is ready to run at you and stab you. The instructor had the students test the theory with rubber guns and knives – we padded ourselves up and gave it a shot. What we experienced was that it was better to to know good knife defenses (one of Krav Maga’s specialties) than to depend on your gun at that distance. There may be exceptions, but this is probably a good rule to abide by.
Forged Viking Knives, Husk Chef Knife Butcher Knives Handmade Fishing
It takes time to draw a firearm and fire it at a threat. A distant of 21 feet can be closed in about one second.
Knives are nasty and very deadly in close quarters.
Below is a video that demonstrates this. I would like to point out that someone with a gun has other options. He can buy time, draw, and engage the target if he rolls strategically. However, in general, you would like to have a knife and gun on you if you’re going to be facing up-close-and-personal episodes with knife wielding threats. Furthermore, knife wounds are nasty and many are life-threatening and cause a lot of blood loss. Knife can very well beat gun in close quarters.
Knife vs Gun – The 21 Foot Rule – Great Demonstration
Zelite Infinity Damascus Chef Knife 8 Inch, Japanese Chef Knife