What am I doing wrong with knife sharpening?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “am-1 knife“
About Cora
Written by: Cora
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What am I doing wrong with knife sharpening?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “am-1 knife“
About Cora
If you’re an actual blue-collar working cook who has to turn out large volumes of decent quality food that’s consistent and well-presented, then you don’t want a perfectly sharp knife. You want one that’s sharp enough .
Razor sharp knives are a hazard when you’re under pressure to perform. And the aim of the performance in the overwhelming majority of cases is to do something well and do it fast, and do it the same way for a lot of people.
I should know. I have a two-inch scar that a nurse said looked surgical on my hand. I got it because I was in a hurry. I made a mistake, and then I flinched, and that was that. It came within a hair of separating both major tendons connecting my thumb to the wrist.
A dull knife is a hazard as well, and can cause a lot of problems, especially in the hands of inexperienced kitchen staff who think that the best way to cope with it is to lean into the thing and use more force. A good cook knows how to get a working edge back on a knife within a few seconds using a steel.
Then, when there’s time for it, do a proper job on the whetstone. Normally you’d do this with any knife that needs it right before your shift.
This answer is probably making a lot of higher-end professionals twitch. For good reason. If you’re making top-flight cuisine, and you’re in the kind of kitchen that actually allows you enough time and space to work with precision, then yes, precision blades are going to be necessary as well.
But for anyone else, my experience was that sharp enough is good enough. Very basic technique with a whetstone and a steel can keep your knife sharp enough to make it cut with very little effort, and cut exactly how you want it to.
Unless you have your own working space, and your own knives, and you don’t work in an area open to people who don’t know knife safety, don’t go overboard on sharpening your knives.
The same applies to combat knives. Sharp enough is good enough. You don’t want to open a vein or an artery just because someone jostled you in a tight space. You want it to be sharp enough to do what you want it to, when you want it to.
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So many things can go wrong. It’s actually faster to explain how it should be done.
First off it’s useful to determine the state of the knife to see if it needs actual sharpening (taking away steel):
…or that honing the steel is sufficient (realigning the sharp but bent edge):
If it needs thorough sharpening, it is useful to start off with a 300-500 grit stone. Wet or oil the stone if needed for your particular stone. Use the correct angle and use back and forth motions for this coarse grind. You can still use a fair bit of pressure here.
Continue on one side until you feel a burr on the other side (use your nails) along every point of the edge:
Turn it around and repeat until you feel a burr along the full edge on the other side.
Now the base is ready and all that’s needed now is to remove the relatively thick burr and the remaining top layer of metal stripes that are still left on top of the desired end result. These are removed by alternating sides with a 1000 grit stone with an edge trailing motion at the correct angle as though you were spreading butter, while applying less and less pressure.
First start with 20 strokes on one side and 20 on the other, then 15 on one side with somewhat less pressure and 15 on the other. Then 10, then 5 then 2, using less and less pressure.
At 2 you should repeat each side a few times. 2 left, 2 right, 2 left, 2 right, etc.
Now just 1 stroke on each side for about 10–15 times on each side.
This frequent alternating prevents a very thin burr “flap” from being formed that merely gets pushed back and forth with each swapping sides:
This very sharp burr is too small to see with the naked eye and breaks easily after normal use, leaving a serrated edge that easily gets dull after only little use.
Now it’s time for the stropping for further polishing the edge. I prefer using a leather paddle strop with a coarse, suede side (flesh side) and a smooth side (grain side) respectively applied with a 3000-5000 grit and a 7000-10000 grit compound:
Also here you should use the correct angle (although it’s a bit more forgiving at this stage) and strokes away from the edge as if you were spreading butter. Use a slightly more sideways motion than with the stones by turning the tip or the handle a bit more towards the direction of motion. Don’t apply much pressure with stropping. It could actually make the knife more dull, because the soft leather then tends to wrap around the edge, which is also why a slightly more sideways motion is preferred, here. About 70-80% of the stropping is done on the initial coarse side, followed by the final, super fine grit side.
The super fine side of the strop doesn’t take much time at all. The weight of the knife and your hand are enough. A single stroke per side should be alternated here. Keep in mind the microscopic level at which we are working at this stage.
At this stage your knife should be razor sharp:
Keep it sharp by honing the sharp edge straight after every use with the leather strop. A honing steel can be used as well if it matches the particular steel of the knife (thanks Reegan ).
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You will never get a knife razor sharp with such a course abrasive, doesn’t matter how perfect your technique is. That is your problem right there.
Whetstone manufacturers may label stones in the 1000 grit range as fine, extra-fine or ultra-fine, but the term fine covers a lot of ground in the sharpening world. Hell a 300 grit oil stone and an 8,000 grit water stone may both be labelled extra fine by their respective manufacturers, but the results they produce will be worlds apart.
I assume you’re using something like this:
Which may be compounding your problems.
Think of your stones as having teeth. This is accurate, they’re simply too small for you to see and in some cases too small for you to feel, but those teeth leave scratches in metal, and these scratches are what abrade the edge you’re sharpening. Grit essentially reflects the size of the teeth; bigger teeth abrade metal faster, and smaller teeth produce narrower, shallower scratches that refine your edge.
Grit isn’t everything though. The type of abrasive matters too and diamond ‘teeth,’ are sharper and longer than others at matching grits. They move metal fast, but do not refine as effectively as other abrasives in comparable grit ranges. Still for true razor sharpness, or as close as a knife gets you’ll want a stone in the 8,000+ grit range that produces a perfect mirror finish on your secondary bevel with no visible scratches, and it may also be worth re-cutting this bevel at a more acute angle before you start the sharpening process.
However for most knives this is actually superfluous, even counter-productive. An edge needs bite if you want to do more than just cut hair, shave wood, etc.
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The angle, mainly. When people sharpen knives freehand, they often make the angle too obtuse, too blunt, in an effort to make the edge of the knife sharp quickly, but over time, this makes a knife dull and hard/impossible to sharpen without regrinding. The right way is to maintain the proper angle at all times, either through mad skills and long practice, or just by using a good sharpening system with a jig that sets the angle for you, like the Spyderco, Lansky, etc.
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Are you using water or oil? even on diamond stones I use a lubricant.
Are you rolling over a wire edge? Drag the blade backwards across your thumb nail, if it catches there is a almost microscopic piece of material curled over the edge.
Are you pushing the blade forward or pulling it backwards?
I don’t know what up and down means.
Are you working with a Gerber or a Buck knife- I gave up on them as the steel was too hard to sharpen in a reasonable amount of time..
Try raising the back of the blade a few degrees for the last several strokes
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Every time I see a movie or TV depiction of someone sharpening a knife, I cringe…. You’d think someone would do a little research.
The main thing to realize is that whatever sharpening or honing tool you use, the edge has to contact the tool at the same angle every time.
There are those who can do this quite ably with no mechanical aids…. But there are many sharpening devices that help you hold an absolutely consistent edge angle.
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Lots of things might be at play here but I suspect it’s honing you need to do.
So you say your sharpening it on a whetstone, I presume the 400 side first then moving onto the 1000. When it “feels” sharp you think ok and then is that it?
After the whetstone you should be honing your blade.
You should get a honing steel \rod. Doesn’t have to be steel, I have a nice Mac black ceramic honing rod that I absolutely love.
I used to use a diamond coated wustoff “steel” for years but it ate my knives.
My original and first wustoff classic chefs knife has a funny looking bow in it.
It was also to do with my technique but also because they take alot of metal off the edge of your blade.
I could fix it on my grinding wheel or even on the whetstone but I like to keep it as a reminder to me of what bad technique can do.
Previously I had thought that being ok at sharpening my knives was good enough but I only had this knife for 3 yrs and this developed. Then i decided to learn it properly and try to master it. I’m not mastered yet after 10yrs but I’m better than most people I’ve worked with.
A Romanian dishwasher\prep cook was the best I had ever seen. He could give me a perfectly sharpened and almost honed knife from a cheap tool sharpening whetstone (water),just as well done as mine today on my “fancy” hight grit whetstone.
When honing your not puting an edge on your knife but you aligning the hook or lip on the edge of the blade.
Shouldn’t really be there after using the stone but it’s not usually a perfect V shaped edge. The edge itself might be a little bit curved or furled to one side
When using your thumb to check sharpness but gently brushing it from side to side over the edge one side night feel sharp while the other one doesn’t catch your thumb as much. This knife is sharp and has an edge but just needs to be honed so your edge is straight and V shaped.
Not with one of the V’s sides being straighter.
If it’s not your honing then it’s your technique on the stone. You say your sharpening your knife in a straight up and down motion.
Without seeing you do it this could mean a few different ways but for the most part I never use the same motion for all knives, sometimes not even the same way for the same shape knife (with heel or no heel).
Some knives are straight edge (Slicer) and some are curved (chefs), this is just the shape of the knife.
My chefs sniff isn’t sharpened on the stone in the same motions as my boning knife and the only one that I do a straight up and down (if I’m picturing it correctly) might be my long slicer.
The shape of the edge is a whole new story.
You need to make sure your putting the right edge on the right knife and honing appropriately for said edge.
Note that steeling is honing.
A few more things to consider are the type of steel your knife is made of and how soft or hard on the rockwell scale it is. If it’s too soft it won’t hold an edge properly or also “can’t get a razer sharp edge”. Its in commas because every knife can get a razer sharp edge but depending on the soft or hard metal it will be more difficult to get (hard) or tougher to achieve a real straight edge (soft).
As Drew Diaz asks are you using oil or water? If your just going in dry well then that’s just inconsiderate to your knife.
Never go in dry!
That is when using a whetstone.
Some are oil stones, some are water and some are both but that doesn’t mean that you can do both, well at least I’ve never tried. Just go one or the other.
Is your thumb measuring the angle actually at the correct degree edge. Alot of knives come out of the box as a 25deg angle which is durable but not razer sharp.
I go for a 22 with some knives and even smaller for other knives.
Get a protractor, use it, go slow and build up speed that way. Same thing goes for honing but you never need speed for either. It just saves time and is not needed although going very slowly could chip your edge in theory going fast and with bad technique will ruin your edge more.
The pictures are from “an edge in the kitchen” by Chad Ward.
I cant vouch for the book as I haven’t read it all, I got it as a present and just flicked through it and remembered these pics.
What parts I have read are quite informative and well explained.
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I’ve been honing for quite a long time yet my blade actually isn’t getting sharp. What would i be able to foul up?
We regularly get this call or email from clients. It tends to be extremely baffling and may even power you to quit any pretense of honing. Yet, really baffling without getting it sharp, we have found that most issues can be effortlessly settled.
At the point when we work with the client to investigate what is happening, we center around three fundamental variables:
Honing at the Correct Angle – A significant note: by “right” we mean coordinating with the point as of now on the blade paying little mind to genuine level of that point. Coordinating with the current point will allow you the best opportunity to get results. Honing at a higher point will generally give you a less sharp edge, honing at a lower point will enormously expand the time it takes to hone the blade.
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Keeping a Consistent Angle – This is an extravagant method of saying don’t shake the edge when you hone. Whenever you have set up that you are at the right point, you want to remain at that point. A shaking movement makes a dull adjusted edge.
Honing All the Way to the Edge – We could likewise call this, “Did You Start with a Coarse Enough Grit?” In request to make a sharp edge, the two sides of the edges being honed should meet at a line. Eliminating material until that convergence is accomplished is the best way to achieve this. We observe that in issue cases individuals regularly essentially haven’t made an edge with their first coarseness.
We’ve shown every one of these primary factors underneath.
Hone to the Correct Angle
Check that your honing point coordinates with the current point on the blade. To do this, utilization a marker to shading the slant of your blade. Then, at that point, do 3 or 4 strokes on a stone. Check out the angle to see where you have eliminated the marker. You ought to have the option to rapidly check whether you are coordinating with the point or not. In the event that you’ve taken out the checked region over the edge, you’re excessively low. If you’ve taken out stamped region just at the very edge, you’re likely excessively high. If you’ve eliminated the stamped region in the slope, you’re spot on.
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My grandpa bought me a Buck knife when I was maybe 10. He was born on a dirt farm in Oklahoma, and grew up in Arkansas. His whetstone had a giant sway in the top surface, more divot than green, basically. He was an expert at hand sharpening, and he made it look EASY. I can do everything exactly the way he taught me, and even with the advantage of a flat stone, I just can’t get SHARP. Not freehanding. I suspect if I’d stick with it another 10 or 20 years, I’d get there…
I have learned to sharpen knives, I just employ some innovations to the method. Give me something that keeps the stone and steel at a fixed angle, and if I can’t get it sharp, there’s a problem with the steel.
My favorite is the Lansky setup, the Crock Stick / Sharpmaker is very compact and has a nice, steep learning curve, the Wicked Edge version seems like the best quality, but if I ever had that budget, I’d blow it on knives first.
The denim/linen/leather strop is a nice, quick touch for blades without damage. I’m scared of the aggressive steels that seem to come with every set because the butcher uses them on TV, but I do have a ceramic steel that’s very effective for a quick shape-up.
Removing as little metal as possible to achieve the result is a challenge, but worthy of the effort for decent quality knives. If the knife is poor quality steel, type or hardness, no amount of effort can succeed.
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FIRST YOU MUST TELL WHAT YOU ARE DOING// YOU MIGHT STONE JAPANESE HAND FORGED BLADE UNTILL NOTHING LEFT OF IT AND NOT GET IT PAST PIZZA SHARRP IN LOCAL RESTAURANTS// AND REASONS CAN BE ENDLESS //SHARPENING KNIVES BY HAND//EVEN WITH LANSKY OR COLD STEEL OR SOME OF MODERN SHARPENING KITS THAT PROVIDE YOU WITH OK STONES SOME KIND OF GUIDE TO GET ANGLE CORRECT// OILS AND INSTRUCTIONS// BUT SOME WILL EVEN WITH THAT NEVER MANAGE TO GET BLADE SHARP FROM TIP TO BASE// LIKE YOU CAN GET A STEINWAY PIANO TO 100 CHILDRENS BUT FEW WILL NOT EVER GET PASS SCALE OR SO AND THERE IS NO SHAME TO IT// NOT ALL CAN SING// SIMILAR NOT ALL GOT HAND CO ORDINATION TO REPEAT STROKE AFTER STROKE SAME FORCE ,ANGLE ETC//REMEMBER 3 OK STRIKES ON STONE AND 1 A BIT OFF AND YOU CAN TRY UNTILL NO BLADE LEFT//FOR PERSONS LIKE THAT THERE ARE FOR MEDIUM SHARPNESS MOTOR OR AUTO FOOLPROOF CONTRAPTIONS AND WHEN IT STOP WORKING TAKE KNIFE TO SHARPENER OR LOCAL MEAT SALESMAN AND PAY HIM BEER OR 3// IF YOU GOT KNIVES THAT ARE WORTH IT //YODAY MANY BLADES ARE SO CHEEP //AND STILL WILL LAST A HOME CHEFF NO SUSHI MASTER OF OSAKA MONTHS//AND THAN HE JUST GET POINTS IN SHOP TO GET NEW KIT FOR LIKE 10 DOLL OR SO //DO NOT GO INTO CHARMING SNAKES IF NO LOVE,NO NEED AND NO CASH IN IT// SOME PILOT PLANE BUT CAN NOT EVEN USE KNIFE SOME CAN PRODUCE KATANA FROM OLD LEAF SPRING BUT CANT RIDE BIKE SO //LOL /PS LOOK FEW U TUBE TUTORIALS// IF YOU OWN A 50 PLUS EU KNIFE LET A PRO SHOW IT TO YOU //OR GO GET A 50 KIT //WORSE CASE YOU LL GIVE STONES TO FRIEND AS GIFT AND GET A 5 DOLL KNIFE //OR GET 50 DOLL ONE RAZOR SHARPENED IN KNIFE SPECIALIST//AND WHEN YOU LL WISIT HIM 4,5,8X YOU CAN TRY AGAIN
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I’ve tried every kind a knife sharpening system on the market and couldn’t get any good results, until I did some things and now I can get any flat blade knife blade razor sharp in about 5 minutes, BUT, the thing I ask is, how sharp does a pocket knife blade need to be? Does it need to be razor sharp? IS that all you’re going to cut with it? To shave? Well, the thing is, even with a razor, the first shave dulls it. You can get a knife blade razor sharp , but as soon you use it, it gets dull and paper and cardboard is the worse thing to cut, then wire, etc. So what’s reasonable is sharp enough to cut whatever you need to cut on a daily basis.
I bought a 600X microscope that hooks to my computer, so that when I place the edge of the blade under it, it shows up on my computer screen, magnified. Now, the thing is, I ask a friend to hand me the sharpest knife they can find. They do and I place the edge under the microscope and show them, the edge looks like the the edge of a jigsaw blade- all jagged. A perfectly sharpened blade, with a perfectly straight edge, under the microscope, to the naked eye will have a highly polished edge.
The other thing I did was to begin sharpening straight razors. The thing about them is, the back spine is precisely made so that when you lay the blade flat on a stone, it is the perfect angle to sharpen the edge. So I got a piece of marble 6″ wide and 12″ long. Then I got different grits of sandpaper- 400, 600, 800, 1500, then it gets into- 8,000 grit, 40,000 grit and 50,000 grit and placed the successive grits on the marble. Then I lay the blade flat on the sand paper and rapidly rub it back and forth. 1/2 minute per side , then change to the higher grit and rub again. Repeat through all the grits and by the time it gets to the last one, it’s highly polished and the edge is perfect smooth and straight.
Like this:
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