Did Jacob Blake pick up a knife, and does that fact matter?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “jacob blake knife pics“
Did Jacob Blake pick up a knife, and does that fact matter?
You can check the answer of the people under the question at Quora “jacob blake knife pics“
It actually doesn’t matter. He at the very least attempted access an area where a deadly weapon is likely to be stored after repeatedly ignoring lawful orders, resisting arrest, etc. Whether or not he actuay gained control of a deadly weapon is irrelevant given the totality of the circumstances.
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Ever see pics of a knife attack victim?
Yes, it matters.
The idiot, despite all the outrage about police and arresting blacks, did everything he knew would get him hurt, or worse.
And I am supposed to feel sorry for him??
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The facts to us are still incomplete. So I do not know if he picked up, or had, a knife.
HOWEVER, it does matter.
Can you please answer for me one single reason that someone with warrants out for their arrest, who has fought police on the scene and is refusing to be arrested….. would need a knife?
Go ahead. Think about it.
I’ll wait.
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YES, it does absolutely matter. Understand having or attempting to access a knife is just part of the totality of the circumstances the officer using deadly force is held to account for and justify his actions.
First of all what the average person deems to be a reasonable Use of Force is NOT what the Courts have held it to be. Why the Courts?
Because the state, and Federal Legislatures have NOT written or modified law on the police use of force since it was typically written 150 or so years ago.
So the Courts (Mostly SCOTUS) have stepped in to fill the void by issuing decisions. There are two cases that figure prominently in that. The one that addresses the officers decision making is-
Graham V. Conner-
Any use of force by law enforcement officers needs to take into account
“severity of the crime at issue,
whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and
whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.”
Lets look at all three based on what we know about the Jacob Blake incident-1.
“severity of the crime at issue,
Police were called to the scene. We do NOT know what is on the Dispatch Call (911) or whether or not the police knew about the outstanding warrant for Sexual Assault, and Domestic Battery. (Previous posts about it being for Child Molestation are incorrect). If they did its one more factor indicating the possibility that a problematic arrest may occur.
We now have a video of what happened from a different angle and while again, it only started mid way through the incident, it shows Blake getting up and walking around the car to the drivers door-
2nd Angle of Jacob Blake Shooting
This supports the officers versions that he was in fact tased twice, and it failed to stop him getting up and heading to the drivers car door, all the wile with guns pointed at him.
The Severity of the crime at issue isn’t necessarily the outstanding warrant, or any allegations of domestic battery that may have occurred, right there and then. The severity of the crime at issue then at that moment was three small children in the car, and Blakes apparent disregard or instructions to the contrary to stop and submit to arrest. The officer in question was now faced with either letting Blake go, or stopping him.
brought the potential for Kidnapping to occur. A reasonable person would conclude Blake is either going to get into the car and leave, or possibly retrieve a weapon in which to fight off the police.
whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and
Well as explained above the the officers had to consider the safety of “Others” if he drove off in a 3,000 pound piece of machinery. There is a distinct possibility of a high speed pursuit. That concern covers the three children in the car his fellow officers, and the general public’s safety.
whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.”
No one in the BLM crowd has contested the fact that Blake was in fact violently resisting arrest. I suspect he was told that he was going to be arrested, (Turn around place your hands on the vehicle) when the resistance started. Two taser attempts failed, and Blake got up and continued to walk to his car. That is while officers had guns drawn and were telling him to stop.
Then he reaches into the car for something. Police claim its a knife. If that is true, then the shooting was the last option the officer had to prevent, an attack on the officer with a deadly weapon. Even if there was NO weapon, just the threat of kidnapping and possible harm to many other innocent persons, justified the shooting.
Why the 7 shots? Because officers are taught that once you engage you continue shooting until the threat is neutralized. So as long as the suspect is reaching, the officer can continue to shoot.
Answer?
I believe based on what I know today (August 30, 2020, the shooting without a knife present would be justified based on the threat of kidnapping and a high speed pursuit.
Now I often next hear- “How did the officer KNOW that?” “He isn’t justified in shooting based on what the defendant MIGHT or MIGHT NOT do.”
Again Graham V Conner-
The Court then explained that, “As in other Fourth Amendment contexts… the “reasonableness” inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers’ actions are ‘objectively reasonable’ in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation.” The Court also cautioned, “The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.”
So the officer had to consider the worst case scenario, and act accordingly or he just might hear-
“Why did you let him drive off with my three babies?” Now they are dead because you didn’t do your job!”
NOTE- Before you embarrass and call me a racist, like several have, you might read this first.
Edgar D. McDonald II’s answer to What do you think about the arrest of Derek Chauvin, the ex-Minnesota policeman who knelt on the neck of Floyd George?
See I understand Law Enforcement because I sat on Use of Force Review committees. I also taught it to Correctional Officers.
I call things like how I see them. Disagree all you want. Just understand how the officers actions are evaluated.
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He was resisting arrest. He reached for a knife. I frankly don’t know whether he got as far as actually picking it up, but that certainly does not matter. He was a violent, dangerous criminal who was resisting arrest and attempting to acquire a weapon. What are the police supposed to do, wait until he actually has the weapon in his hand? Until he’s close enough to attack someone with it? Until he’s actually injured or killed someone?
Here are some great tip I heard once on how to avoid being shot by the police: Don’t resist arrest. Don’t threaten police officers. Don’t break the law.
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Does it matter that in typical fashion the media rushed to the story of “an unarmed man was shot…” when in fact he was armed? Well if you have actual morals and common sense of course it matters. If you have the morals of media, politicians and “activists” then not so much.
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Of course it matters. It now is a justified shooting of an armed felon who was resisting arrest instead of an innocent black man who didn’t do nothing. He could end up in jail based on his outstanding warrant. The police acted appropriately. He is a criminal and should have his day in court but as the defendant not the prosecutor.
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It is re[ported by the DOJ that Blake was reaching for a weapon.. and that surely does matter. All he had to do was comply with the officer’s commands and this would have had a far different outcome.
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From an interview with a lawyer, apparently he had a knife on him. It was the type with 4 holes for fingers. That was the reason the cops were just following him around the vehicle, risk too great to apprehend him when he was already armed and the taser had not worked. Domestic violence calls like this are responsible for 25% of cases of cops getting shot, and another 25% when apprehending someone in their vehicle. When Blake reached his vehicle that suddenly puts the cops at higher probability of being shot.
Why the cop didn’t stop after two shots? I hope we will find out after the investigation. But the cops were clearly in danger when a known violent suspect like Blake resists arrest.
Here is another example, not connected with the Blake case, but an example of the risk cops put themselves into regularly.
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Jacob Blake had a knife, and yes it matters.
While a gun is obviously more deadly a weapon than a knife because it can be used at short-long distances, a knife is nonetheless a lethal weapon.
There are thousands of incidents where a person is stabbed once…and it is a fatal round because the knife pierces the heart or an artery in the body. Yes a stab wound in the shoulder, under the armpit, and the thigh can sever an artery and kill within a minute.
Go on YouTube and search Daniel Pollen. It is a story of a young man waiting for his sister to give him a ride home. He is attacked by 3 thugs, and one has a pocketknife. Just out of the camera frame, the thug appears to punch Daniel in the chest. It is in fact a stab wound….a shallow stab wound since it is a pocket knife. But it is fatal because it punctures the heart, and the man dies within a minute.
If Jacob Blake had a knife, it takes 1 second to lunge at a person and stab them in the heart. Far faster than most people can react.
There is something called the “20 foot rule” or the “21 foot rule”, which is sometimes referred to by law enforcement. 21-feet is the distance that can be traveled by an attacker before an officer can react, unholster his sidearm, and fire at the attacker.
The 21-Foot Rule: Why Is It Important?
Jacob Blake is clearly holding a knife in the video footage, and officers have their guns drawn already. When Blake tries to enter the vehicle, officers must decide whether to stop him right there, or allow for the possibility that he takes control of the car and drives off and becoming a threat to people on the street/roads.
Officers aren’t going to wrestle a person with a knife. Police officers aren’t ninjas, and it is literally a 50/50 chance of surviving a close combat situation with a knife. If officers have these encounters on a daily basis in violent communities, the average lifespan of an officer would be a few days.
In this particular situation, the officers have little choice but to shoot Blake because of the consequences of the other options. Here are the options:
Stay back – If officers stayed back, Blake could drive off and harm other people. He could attack people on the street, or speed off and get in a car accident and kill others. Police would be liable for that because they failed to stop Blake when they had the chance.
Physically stop Blake – Not an option. Nobody is going to try and wrestle a man with a knife as part of their job description. Take any average male with a knife, and I’m willing to bet nobody is going to raise their hand to try to manually disarm him.
Shoot Blake – The only real option here. This stops him from taking control of the car, and stops the threat of the knife with minimal risk to the officers.
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Here is my point of view, assuming that all accounts are generally correct:
There was a 911 for an “domestic incident” and Mr Blake was the suspect.
There was a warrant out for him on three charges, one of them involving violence — and Mr Blake knew that.
Neither side denies that there was a physical altercation before the shooting. Regardless of who started it, Mr. Blake knew or must have known that he was in a serious situation.
However, instead of complying, Mr Blake reached into his car. And this is where the situation goes south.
Seriously, when I got my driver’s license in the US, I was told by everybody and their uncle AND their uncle’s dogs to never, ever reach somewhere in my car when stopped by the police, and to actively make sure that the LEO(s) could see my hands at any given time. And I was told why. It is safe to assume that Mr Blake, as an American citizen, knew of that as well. It does not really matter whether he was armed before, this is where Mr Blake crossed a well known line.
I come to the conclusion that the use of force in general was warranted: The officers could not know what Mr. Blake had in his car, what he was reaching for and the situation had already escalated, regardless of who started that escalation.
So the question remains whether excessive force was used. And this is where it gets really tricky, because that very, very much depends on the operating procedures and rules of engagement of the PD. Personally, from what I have read about the incident, I am under the impression that a warning shot probably had deescalated the situation sufficiently. Seven shots fired, with 4 of them hitting gives me the impression that Officer Sheskey overreacted at the very least. However, I would not want to be the one throwing the first stone at Officer Sheskey: I simply do not know how I would have reacted when pumped up with adrenaline in a situation in which I had to assume that the suspect was arming himself. But again: It boils down to the rules and regulations of the respective PD.
I support the cause of BLM and #IamAntifa for roughly 30 years, but there is no innocent in this scenario.
The truly sad thing is what this incident lead to: Not only were two innocent people killed while merely executing the rights granted to them by the First Amendment, additionally a boy’s life takes a sharp turn for the worse. What must his life have looked like to come to the decision to kill people instead of trying to get into some panties?
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No, it doesn’t matter. His problem was violently resisting arrest; a knife would just be another charge.
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You need context to understand what really happened. Blake had sexually assaulted his ex-girlfriend and stolen her car. The police got the call from her and were aware of his long legal record. They pulled him over and attempted to apprehend him peacefully, but he resisted. They had tasered him twice when he went back to the car, ignoring the two policemen saying loudly- “Stop or I’ll shoot!” Then the closest policeman saw he was going for a long knife on the floor of the car. He then fired seven shots, some of which had to be warning shots, because it only takes one to kill. He received …
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Cops always say I thought I saw a gun or knife in his hand after they shoot someone, it’s classic. Unfortunately the videos say otherwise we all get to see the blatant disregard for human life.
Not to be deterred now they try to tell the public don’t believe your eyes believe what we say.
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